Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Mar 1, 2014 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

I wonder how Sir Max's recent BBC doc "The Necessary War" went over the other night, with his attempts to de-Black Adder-ize WW1 to the British people?

>... yea, sounds familiar, eh?

Indeed. One of the saddest refrains. Seems impossible for us to escape from.

And more on entitlement. A bit crude and defo a first world problem (but they are the only chain in Detroit...), but maybe this will be a giggle for some > https://medium.com/race-class/d778c31aa9be

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Tamlintheyounger Date: Mar 1, 2014 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

this conflict apart from all others seemed to stand out in terms of senseless ness - the text book answer is that germany wanted a piece of that sweet colonial action - but you refer to another possibility the johnny jingos and their madness a madness shared by all sides

eventually though one learns to transcend even the dialectic of loss and gain to do this our notions of causality have to be flipped over, top to bottom

in the same way reason does not suffice to explain human behavior it does not explain history all we can do is hang on for the ride

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snoori Date: Mar 2, 2014 6:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

I watched both programmes ( the alternative view to Hastings was given by historian Niall Ferguson), and much as it pains me to agree with Hasting his was the more convincing argument.

There are going to be a lot more arguments along these lines in the next few months, sifting fact from opinion will be difficult, but worth it if we can stop history repeating itself. The sooner the better in the present circumstances.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Mar 2, 2014 7:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

I was only aware of Sir Max's bit. Do you have the title of Mr. Ferguson's doc?

I felt Sir Max's strongest point was that if GB did not enter the war in '14, that in time (with a probable German victory) she would alone face what she had spent centuries avoiding- a dominant continental power with the capability of defeating the Royal Navy.

His points on generalship and Versailles did not persuade me.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Mar 3, 2014 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

I tend to give Ferguson the nod, in that Britain could have cooled things out .
Some sort of agreement that would have protected Germany from it being the meat in a France & Russia sandwich . But , of course, it was the great dumb-ass Kaiser that got them in this situation . Bismarck set them fine, as long as you have good relations with Austria, and Russia, nothing to fear from France . Don't join the colonial sweepstakes , because you we need a navy, and alienate the British .
Guess what they did ...
A while back Kissinger pointed out how that , with the exception of France, none of the really big powers in that war had anything to gain .
I suspect a early German defeat of the French, and Russian armies might not lead to the total domination of Europe the way MH feels it would . But it certainly would not have curbed the German arrogance , took 2 disastrous wars to do that .
As for my 3 cents on the Ukrainian shindig, why does the Crimea and east Ukrainian situation spell "Sudetenland" to me ?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snoori Date: Mar 2, 2014 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

Ferguson's doc is called 'The pity of war'. He is quite scathing of Britain's entry into the war, though less convincing on the alternative.

Hastings' point about Germany becoming the dominant European power is probably correct, but makes Britain seem only self-interested. His argument that we had an obligation to defend Belgium is compelling.

Alliances and pacts do seem to have got us into a hell of a lot of trouble throughout history.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 2, 2014 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

Egads, man! The alternative??!! Why, it's NO Downton Abbey, that's what!!

Shudder...

;)

Just sayin; hard to go back and say "GB shouldn't have gone in for..._______" (Belgium, France, Rhodes [whoops, not a country...oh well, it works], Poland, etc.). At the time, it seemed as clear as us coming to the aid of...of...of...Kuwait? I dunno--but really, at the time, no one in Europe really said much about "this is the WRONG war", etc., etc. No one sez that about most any of the wars of the 19th century, right? They all seemed "just" or "good", depending on your POV. Wars back then were just not what they became, and nobody knew that about WWI except for the few that had witnessed the carnage of the Boer War first hand (like Kitchner, for all his faults; he predicted it precisely).

Really, it's the recent wars that really jump out as wars over ideology (Korea, VNam, etc).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snoori Date: Mar 2, 2014 11:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-Dead - Hey WT and other history buffs

Come now WT, everyone knows Downton Abbey was caused by an iceberg. Wasn't it ?